Saturday, April 08, 2006

Ancient scripture discovered

This interesting story is for my Christian Zionist friends.

(NY Times) - An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years, and it portrays Judas Iscariot not as a betrayer of Jesus but as his favored disciple and willing collaborator.

In this text, scholars reported yesterday, the account of events leading to the Crucifixion differs sharply from the four gospels in the New Testament. Here Jesus is said to entrust Judas with special knowledge and ask him to betray him to the Roman authorities. By doing so, he tells Judas, "you will exceed" the other disciples.

"You will be cursed by the other generations, and you will come to rule over them," Jesus confides to Judas in the document, which was made public at a news conference at the National Geographic Society in Washington.


Being a Jew, you all know the NT is not my book, so, I'll defer to my Christian friends to tell us what the religious significance of this finding may be for you. I would guess it is of value, but we'll see what you have to say. To me, from a historical perspective, a document like this from around the period when the NT was being canonized seems very interesting.

-MZ

20 comments:

  1. The fundamentalist Christians look pretty stupid in light of this finding. Christianity has been officially discredited.

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  2. MZ,

    the National Geographic Society is attempting to use this text to discredit Christianity. Their "experts" are trying to stress that there were over thirty "closely" competing (and conflicting,) Gospels. The clear insinuation is that none of them can be taken seriously.

    NG is being very selective in who is allowed to examine this text. I'm no Biblical scholar, but it's no secret that Jesus and Judas were close. He was a disciple, after all. I do know that telling Judas he would "rule over" future generations isn't in character with his other statements.

    I'd like to see this text receive the serious study it merits, but the hard left National Geographic Society is determined to use it as thinly veiled anti-Christian propaganda.

    My mother thinks I like The NG Magazine for some reason. She bought me another subscription last Christmas. All the issues are still in their protective covers. The photography in NGM is exceptonal, but the left-wing politics are hopeless. Reading their fanciful descriptions of places I've actually been to is good for a laugh, nothing more.

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  3. I am not a theologian, but I did graduate from a Catholic University and had to have 20 hours of college level theology courses (for what it is worth to you all).

    I was taught very clearly that Christ knew that he had become a circus act.--"Turn water into wine." "Walk on the water." "Heal the sick, prophet."--His message was not sinking in, and he knew it, as did his father. He knew he had to become a martyr to start the spread of his word.

    HE "CHOSE" A "FEW" JEWISH POWERS THAT BE TO CRUCIFY HIM, AS WELL AS PILATE. AND JUDAS WAS CHOSEN TO BETRAY HIM. He foresaw all of this plan in the garden, and the Son of Man was so terrified of what was to come, he asked his father to release him from his responsibility (some say he sweat blood).--It was denied, and things that were planned were set in motion.

    A truly educated Christian knows this, and does not blame Jews or Pilate or Judas for anything, because they are indeed blameless.--THESE VERY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WERE CHOSEN, AND ACTUALLY HAD NO SAY IN THE MATTER!

    In my opinion this theory changes nothing.

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  4. I agree with both JB and RM

    NG is a leftwing enviro-multiculti rag.
    I've been to many 3rd world shitholes and all they do is spray glitter on em.

    As for this new "gospel", I don't think it changes much and may have just been a hearsay or 2nd hand acct in the 1st place.
    No way to know.
    At the same time, it doesn't matter.
    The books of the bible were chosen along 2 protocols:
    1. They jived with the Torah.
    2. They jived with Catholic (not called "Catholic" yet back then) doctrine - which was already over 300yrs old when they finally got done with it.
    If it did not fit, it was not included.
    From there we can only take it or leave it.

    1200yrs later, King James took most and left some.

    Nowadays, everyone's taking some and leaving most.

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  5. And Dana, "discredited" is synonymous with you and the rest of the left.
    You're just too stupid to see it.

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  6. the merry widow4/09/2006 3:42 PM

    In the book of Colossians, Paul deals with something called "gnostism", which was a conglomeration of Greek phylosophy, Jewish ritualism and some Christian elements. What came out was a "mystery" religion that said salvation came by "secret" knowledge, that there was a "hierarchy" of spirits to be worshiped and "secret" rituals to be performed. It was NOT Christian or Judaism! There were many texts that were rejected because of this gnostic basis. The gospel of Judas is among them, interesting from an historical view, but, worthless from a Christian one.
    Interesting the timing of the news release, after all the text has been around for a while! Attempt to discredit and weaken Christianity? Foolishness!

    tmw

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  7. the new testament specifies the moment satan entered into judas - so essentially this scenario is true in the behaviors of man and the spirit of judas (satan) ruling over humanity. Yeshua said, "what you do, do quickly." this doesn't imply He made Judas do anything otherwise the whole free will idea would have to go out the window.

    having discussed judas in length with anybody who would listen - the real question is, at the moment he realized he betrayed an innocent man, did he repent? is that why he did himself in? was there forgiveness for him?

    this is another attempt by the enemy to get christians to question their christianity. i will not see this movie and do not believe it will sway true christians in any manner.

    if there was indeed a "gospel of judas" - there was also a very good reason it was left out of the holy bible. there are many books that didn't cut the muster and were left out for one reason or another. i'm not a theologian either, but know what i know what i know.

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  8. and to danabobanabobonehead - christianity needs more than a phony attempt to undermine us to be discredited. your anti-fundies are showing!

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  9. Personally, the ancient qualities of the text are very interesting to me. I don't expect that this finding will change anyone's religious views much, just as finding the Dead Sea scrolls had no impact on Jewish law. Yet, it does give us an interesting glimpse into the different deviations that existed from that early, formative era of Christian history.

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  10. judas is one of the reasons i try to keep eleven friends, maybe thirteen, but never twelve - you just never know, madze...

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  11. Nanc,

    are they already making a movie about this text? Is that what "The DaVinci Code" is about? I know I don't want to see that, based on the type of dorks who buy the book.

    Kind of like a restaurant. When I see that all the customers are counter-culture geeks, I avoid it, because those nerds have crappy taste. If I see it's full of the pretentiously affluent, I know it's an over-priced snob's club. If I see people from all walks of life enjoying the food, it's bon apetite time.

    I think I will read more about this text though. I'm curious to see when it was written, what language it was written in, where it's from (I know they found it in Egypt but that doesn't mean anything conclusive) and who probably wrote it.

    Obviously it's going to have zero effect on the beliefs of Christians, but it sure has the Christian-haters aroused. I could practically hear Dana licking her cancher-covered lips with malicious glee.

    Gnostic compilations are published regularly for the Christian-hating moonbats. I see them at the bookstore all the time - usually on the bargain table. Only the secular hatemongers will show more than a casual interest in this text. I'm sure PBS will produce a special about it when they're not busy praising islam.

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  12. the davinci code implies that Jesus had a child with mary magdalene and the lineage of Christ goes on until the present. i won't see that movie either.

    O.T. madze - see here for the custom avatar i've commissioned warren to create for fern:

    http://freedomnowonline.blogspot.com/

    it's an idea whose time has come.

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  13. I am not a Christian but if I were I would not accept any new additions to the Bible. These are second century works and may have no historical accuracy. Personally, the author sounds like an apologist for evil.

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  14. b.b. - the author is a minion of satan! sent to take our minds off the one true G-d and question our beliefs! Yeshua was tempted 40 days in the wilderness with EVERY temptation known to man and passed muster, so to speak. He said, "I have not come to abolish the law - I have come to complete it." there are no new additions to the bible - there can be none as the book of revelation, written approximately 70-90 a.d. states emphatically that those who add to or take away from will be cursed for eternity. the book was closed at that time and all we need to know are within its pages.

    whether my jewish friends believe this or not is not for me to decide, but the new testament is just a testament to the old testament. i am an old testament christian which is why i find judaism so rich.

    now, time for dana to get angry.

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  15. madze - are you going to tell us the peshach (passover) story this week in the special madze way of relating events? if so, i will draw an audience - i'd like to share it with my wednesday night kids also. you are so thoughtful.

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  16. Of course, nanc! I'll try and do it Tuesday night.

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  17. see this article for the other side of the story:

    http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060406/2006-04-06T205329Z_01_N06316777_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-JUDAS-DC.html

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  18. Out of curiousity only, I surfed back and forth to the NG story, and I think it is all a bunch of BS.
    My dear old Dad was very religious and a part time self ordained minister,....and I could still hear him say,....wresteling with the scripture.!

    I agree with Jeff and others,..NG is nothing but a multi-culti, pc, leftist rag.

    The pictures are good, and that's the only good thing about it.

    BTW, just about anything NG puts on tv is leftist tripe, from enviro-wackism to multi-culti utopia.

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  19. I'm still trying to figure out how Judas wrote a Gospel 350 years after he committed suicide.

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Thank you for commenting. Respectful debate and dissent are welcomed. MZ reserves the right to censor for any reason without explanation.